Harvey Mackay Academy's Blog

Greg Williams: Legendary Leader Interview

Cliff Jones: Ladies and gentlemen, Cliff Jones, Harvey Mackay Academy. I am thrilled to have Greg Williams with us, master negotiator and body language expert. Greg. Good morning. Pleasure to have you with us at Harvey Mackay Academy

Greg Williams: Good morning to you Cliff, and thank you for the invitation.

Cliff Jones: Ladies and gentlemen, if you don’t know Greg Williams and you don’t know what we’re gonna be talking about, we are going to be learning about Greg Williams, who is a master negotiator and body language expert. In fact, he’s studying me right now and if you watch him right when he’s speaking, you will see the master. So Greg, you’ve studied in practice negotiation, tactics and strategies for more than 30 years. Greg spent over 20 years studying the way body language can affect negotiation outcomes. Specifically your education experience come from formal negotiation settings, universities, governmental municipalities, seminars, and the most important school of hard knocks. He served a numerous corporate business and government boards, big time professional speaker, multiple books, seven books, correct? And, among those negotiate afraid no more. Right. And then you’ve got a highly acclaimed audio cd set, still available to how to negotiate your way to success and we can find out about you at TheMasterNegotiator.com, right?

Greg Williams: That’s correct. Cliff, TheMasterNegotiator.com. And the book you mentioned was actually the first book that I wrote because my latest two books happened to be body language secrets to win more negotiations. And the latest one is negotiating with a bully!

Cliff Jones: Yeah. I’m glad you brought that up because that’s a. that’s your newest and one of your biggest, most passionate thing. So tell everybody what’s really motivating you to become the master negotiator and such a student of body language and all that start.

Greg Williams: Well actually it started when I was a little boy with my mother and I used to watch her negotiate for everything cliff. I made. It got to a point to where I was embarrassed at times because she was always asking for a lower price, a better deal, etc etc. And I literally said to her one day, mom, this is kind of embarrassing to which she replied, it’s your money. The more that you keep, the more of it you can do with, and I never forgot that lesson. As a matter of fact, my motto is “you’re always negotiating” and that came directly from my mother.

Cliff Jones: Well, clearly you become a standout in the field. Harvey Mackay raves about you. You guys have a long, longterm relationship. Anything you want to share with our audience about your experience knowing and working with Harvey Mackay?

Greg Williams: I’ll tell you, Harvey has been a thought leader and source of motivation for me since I first encountered him back in the eighties. Okay. I know I don’t look that old, but nevertheless it was back then that I first encountered Harvey and he set the roadmap for what one needs to engage in to achieve success. I followed his roadmap and I’m where I am today and I owe a lot of that to Mr. Harvey Mackay.

Cliff Jones: Well, you’ve been very successful as a National Speaker Association contributor, a speaker, you travel all over. You work with big companies, coaches, speakers, entrepreneurs, people from all walks of life today in the time we have together, the short time we have together, unfortunately, negotiation psychology, I want to touch on negotiation strategies is a second big focus and then we’ll close out with some body language “street smarts”, and ladies and gentlemen, as always, the intention of these interviews with superstars like Greg Williams as part of Harvey Mackay’s network is to give you street smarts knowledge you could take away from today’s conversation whether you’re hearing it on the podcast or watching it on the video and apply it in the real world. Isn’t that true, Greg?

Greg Williams: Oh, that’s definitely true because the better you can negotiate, the more successful you will be in life.

Cliff Jones: We’re negotiating all the time. Touch on the biggie points the takeaway value for our listeners and viewers on the psychology of negotiation. It’s a big deal. We’re always negotiating.

Greg Williams: Oh, definitely. So you have to have the right mindset. Anytime you enter into any negotiation, and as I said earlier, my model is you’re always negotiating. That means whatever you are engaged in today impacts tomorrow’s opportunities and does you have to have the psychological aspect of I can as opposed to I can’t and even if you don’t get everything under negotiation today, you can set such set yourself up for the future so that you’re able to get more from a negotiation that you’ll be engaged in at that particular point in time. It’s the mindset that one has to adopt in order to be successful as a negotiator.

Cliff Jones: You talk about IQ and EQ in your work, explain to our audience and listeners what the difference is. We hear it a lot of maybe we don’t understand it and how does it, why is it relevant to negotiation and body language?

Greg Williams: We all have an intellectual aspect about our being. It’s what we’ve learned in a formal environment possible, etc. etc., which is the intellectual quotient that we actually have. Then we have the emotional aspect that we have from time to time and we have to be aware of both of those aspects. When you’re negotiating, because you mentioned earlier that I also attended the school of hard knocks. I learned a lot about the EQ side of negotiations, just from that perspective, you can negotiate with someone from an intellectual point of view and you could be connected, but if that person does not have the same outlook as you and you try to negotiate with them from an intellectual perspective, youtube could be passing one another as you negotiate and thus you have to understand the intellectual and the emotional aspect of a negotiation and that’s what’s meant by the IQ and EQ.

Cliff Jones: I’ve read Chris Voss’s work. He’s a former terrorist negotiator in your field also and you know he makes a great point like you are right now, negotiations happening all the time. These are not won or lost or or on logic we. You’re talking emotion, which is the emotional aspects of reading people, right? A lot of people in the neurolinguistic programming, training realm and LP, if you’re not familiar with it, but you’ve seen all the programs, all the studies, you teach this at the highest level of the game, so what is more important? EQ Your Iq when it comes to negotiation outcomes?

Greg Williams: It depends. It depends on whom it is that you’re negotiating with, as I was alluding to a moment ago, the aspect that someone has of you and have a particular situation will alter from negotiation to negotiation. And thus you must be very attuned to exactly what the source of motivation is behind the actions that the other negotiator is actually engaging in. Why is he engaging in those actions? What is behind the scenes that you may not have uncovered, that’s causing them to engage in a particular negotiation and a manner that he’s doing? So all of those are aspects that you have to keep in mind prior to even entered into a negotiation. And then once you were engaged in it, you need to make sure that you ferret out any suspicions that you might have, per se coming at me intellectually or he coming from an emotional perspective and then sell to whichever of those serves you best.

Cliff Jones: So we had tens of thousands of sales professionals, sales managers, young ladies, women all over the world, uh, men, women gunning for the next level of performance selling. Right? So, uh, why do you, why does the general public have a negative perception of sales overall? There’s going to be a lot of head trash about it. Why is that and what’s the impact when we’re negotiating with people?

Greg Williams: Well, first of all, you always had the test that he premise because, okay, there are a vast amount of people that have the perspective that you mentioned about sales and sales professionals. There are some that have a different perspective. If you go into a negotiation with one aspect only, oh, I know this person’s not going to be amenable to me because I’m a salesperson. You will act differently. There we go again with the EQ side of negotiations. And also the aspect that you possess will make you negotiate differently. What we have to do though is test, as I said, mobile to go the hypothesis of someone if you sense. Hey, good morning. How are you doing today? I’m here to assist you as the result of you reaching out to me to help you with your, fill in the blank. And by the way, Cliff remind me of what that is again. And then I, I observe your body language to see how you react to that. If you say, Oh, well Greg, I’m really happy to see you. Okay. That’s a different demeanor that you’ve already set for the negotiation versus Greg, I’m really happy to see you now. Same words. Body language is definitely projecting two different mindsets and then you tap into one. Just out of curiosity, what was your perspective on those two different bodies set language or I should say body gestures that you perceived even though the words were the same Cliff.

Cliff Jones: Well, it’s clear. I mean we can feel each other’s energy and the authentic salesperson, like you said earlier, is trying to help somebody. They’re genuinely help somebody so I can send that over. Hey, I want to sell you something. Nobody likes to be loved by now. You talked a lot about, especially as it relates to selling and helping people get what they want of being a big point about the third person and the implications of a negotiator using the third person. Tell our audience about that.

Greg Williams: Well, as a negotiator, you should know to what degree there’s a third person or entity involved in a negotiation because as I was saying, that invisible person possibly could be the real person maneuvering behind the scenes, making sure that the negotiator you’re negotiating with performed certain actions and again, you have to know with whom it is that you’re negotiating with so that you know how to position yourself. As you and I were talking a moment ago about that sales environment that we might be the person with the latter projection that I made a moment ago was one that was slightly indicating he’s either somewhat in a hurry or he really does need my assistance and if I pick that up I can then probe and say, okay, cliff, is there something else that I’m sensing that maybe maybe in the back back of your mind or something? Is there some other source that’s motivated you and want to pull that out so I’ll know what I’m dealing with.

Cliff Jones: You know, my style of selling over the years has evolved. If you can see on my bookshelf, I’ve studied all the various things. I generally just genuinely want to help people, so I’m just completely real. How hard is it for people to learn to do that? Is it, is it something younger salespeople in negotiation, negotiators can learn to do? Because for me, I think it’s a matter of time experience, probably you see this a lot, and you see it yourself. It’s a confidence thing when we’re in a position of genuinely trying to help people, we either can or we can add value, right? So, so isn’t that really what the authentic salesperson, the authentic negotiators all about, unless you’re talking about hostage negotiations, because then it’s like we’re not talking life or death stuff. It’s getting along in business, getting along with a family member, spouse, right? And being aware. You talked about positional power, situational awareness, emotionally, you know, emotional intelligence. Tell everybody a little bit about positional power and how that works, um, when, when you’re negotiating and trying to get a good outcome,

Greg Williams: I want to combine that with the initial question you asked about authenticity. Authenticity is perceptional. Again, if you have the perception that I’m someone that’s really there to help you, uh, okay. All well is good. I go down that path. If not, I’ve got to get you on that path first so that you will see that I’ve tried to authentically be someone that can provide value for you per being able to. Um, what was the second part of your question?

Cliff Jones: How you use your situational awareness, emotional intelligence.

Greg Williams: Hang on for a moment Cliff, I did that intentionally. No, you’re not in trouble, but the reason I did that was because I was getting you to help me with my position aid people love to help other people when they ask for assistance in most cases and does, I will be gathering, call it a emotional chits at that particular point in time. Some people say, some people say chips, uh, at that particular point in time because now you’ve helped me a little bit, which helps me to position myself even better with you. Positional power. Now to go on and answer your question directly, positional power is actually when you have a strategic advantage in a negotiation. Now in any negotiation, there’s an ebb and a flow to the negotiation, and thus when you have positional power, you have power. At that particular moment in time, I actually spoke the last time we were together about a heart surgeon or someone that had a heart attack, not searching for the best heart surgeon at the particular point in time. They wanted someone that would be able to alleviate the pain that they were experiencing right then and there, whomever it was that they reached out to have positional power at that particular point in time, a boss has positional power over a subordinate because of the power of the paycheck, the promotion, etc. etc. If that boss is in trouble and needs people to work extra time in order to meet a goal, the subordinate than has positional power that point in time. So that’s what positional power happens to be and the way you use it in negotiations is to make sure that you can address whatever is of greatest concern to you. That’s to say, to promote your position at that particular point.

Cliff Jones: Great stuff. Greg williams, ladies and gentlemen, master negotiator. Body language expert here on Harvey Mackay Academy’s, live “street smarts.” Okay, we’re going into negotiation strategies. I want to ask you about this. My favorite negotiation strategy is kindness, right? I’m no expert, but what I noticed, grocery store clerks, customer service people, anybody in dealing with in daily life, especially with a hurried pace of an entrepreneur like you know very well. Traveling, uh, any situation that tends to test our patience or slow us down. I’ve practiced kindness and I’ve noticed a huge difference. So what’s the difference between kindness in negotiation? Really caring, everybody knows Harvey Mackay cares more than anybody else perhaps, right? Caring kindness, contrasted with the leader uses fear and force to get what he or she wants to talk about that

Greg Williams: Definitely and boy, oh boy. The juxtapositions that you just pronounced can be stark because you have to know again who you’re dealing with when you’re negotiating with someone. If someone is kindness-based, you can go there with them. Display the level of empathy that says, hey, I’m right there with you. You and I are on the same mind thought path. Now, if you use that exact same approach with someone, that was demeaning, demanding, used fear in order to negotiate for him or herself a better deal, you would be putting yourself at peril for sure because that person would assume you’re weak, uh, anything else that would suit that person’s mantra of being able to deal with you and a manner that said, I’m going to crush you because I could sense your weakness. So kindness does have a perspective in a negotiation as does fair at times because if you want someone to get off the dime as it were, that you were negotiating with and that person was really fearful of losing position, lose the account, whatever you could say, something along the lines of, “Cliff, I know if we don’t close this deal, there will be massive negative ramifications for you to endure you don’t want that to happen, do you Cliff?” Now notice the body language? I’m even adding along with those statements to add value to the word. “You don’t want that to happen, Cliff.” So I injected a little bit of fear at that particular case and at the same time, I’m not saying “Cliff, you don’t want that to happen.” Notice the demeanor, the demeanor is one of saying, hey, I’m concerned about you. So again, know who you’re negotiating with.

Cliff Jones: In addition to that power of asking questions helped me understand more, well, why do you feel that way? Dictate me a little further because I’m still. I don’t get it yet I’m, I’m a little slow. Well, help me see what you’re seeing in bridging that gap. However, to your earlier points, trying to offer a bunch of free donuts to the guy holding the bank, that’s not gonna fly, right? That’s probably shoot her and then take the donuts anyways. You touched on a couple of your biggies, the reef and know who you’re negotiating with. Now that gets back to emotional awareness, situational awareness, because we can read energy and then you talk about leverage and the leverage piece.

Greg Williams: Leverage is the aspect that you have or don’t have that tells you in which direction you should take the negotiation. If someone has positional power over you at a particular point in time, you’d have less leverage and thus your negotiation position is not as strong as it would be if you had more leverage. Again, let’s go back to the situation where the boss, okay has power leverage over you. He has that positional power because he has control of your livelihood. The paycheck that you get, all of a sudden his management is telling him, look, you’ve got to meet these quotas, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera or else, and the more dire his situation becomes, the more leverage you gain as an employee because he really needs you now. So when it comes to leverage, again, that ebbs and flows into negotiation. Also, you have to be mindful of when you have it, how to go about getting it and what you’re going to do with it as far as how long you might have it. Because as soon as those quotas are met, now in that situation, you no longer have that degree of below average and you have to rely upon the goodwill of your boss to remember, hey, I really came through for you when you needed it in the crunch, so please be right, do right by me.

Cliff Jones: All right. Now we’re still talking about negotiation strategies you just touched on. Do your research. Know who you’re dealing with. Leverage, leverage. Harvey likes to say the ultimate leverage, the ability to walk away from the table. Okay? But a lot of sales professionals held accountable for a quota, certain production meeting their income and expense goals. they don’t always have the luxury of walking away. So let’s talk about the, um, a couple of other tactics, um, the value of playing the fool and how to combat someone who employs bullying tactics.

Greg Williams: Well, sometimes you can solicit more information by simply acting like you don’t understand something to see where someone is going to go. Or you can play the fool by acting as though something really doesn’t matter. There’s something I call the even if” strategy and negotiation and that strategy goes like, well, cliff, even if you’re right x, y, z, I still think that we’re going to close this deal at a thousand over what it is that I’ve been asking that you said I’ll never get. So now what will be your strategy if I say that? Are you still going to deny me what I’m seeking. So you and I are negotiating and you’re thinking to yourself, this guy, he’s out of his mind, but to some point I’m setting your mindset up the think, “How am I going to deal with the mindset of someone like this?” So the demeanor that you’re projecting into negotiation be at one of foolishness, one of genuine concern for someone else as part of the negotiation strategy, or you adopt for whom it is that you’re dealing with.

Cliff Jones: So the playing the fool. Good example. You remember the tv show Colombo, right? A raincoat clad cigar, you know, always had a cigar, right? He would have done me up, Sandler Training calls, dummying up, but he, he was genuinely his character who’s genuinely, uh, he, he kinda go, not okay in a fumbling a foolish way and people would almost feel sorry for him. He’d go kind of not okay in transactional analysis, germs, right? And people would get divulge information that he could use to, to convict them, right? Or to get them into the jail. So that’s, that’s the difference between knowing, knowing your situation, your leverage points and how to play things. Because if, if you go not okay play fool, you’re going to learn things you wouldn’t otherwise learn and then you have more leverage than that. Is that a fair, fair way to put it.

Cliff Jones: Oh, that is an excellent way to put it because others will tend to let their guard down a little bit. Now. Now here’s the caveat to that. Smart negotiators are aware of those tactics and if someone did that to me and in negotiation based on what they had done prior, my alert system would go off and I say something along the lines of, don’t play the fool with me. And I’d watched to see what their reaction was. Why do you say I’m playing the fool now? Did you notice how wide my eyes got just for that? That was like a shock value. I would pick up that from a body language perspective and that would give me insight that the person truly did understand that I understood he was used as a tactic at that particular point in time. So yes, playing the fool will solicit information more than you otherwise might get. It can also put you into a position whereby you are looked at as less than, but you take note of what follows after you project such actions. And therein lies where you’ll be able to tell to what degree you should continue with them.

Cliff Jones: Alright, let’s hit the bullying thing. Close out negotiation, then we’re going to jump on body language. When I get approached by a bully or I feel threatened, tell me if I’m right or wrong and I’m still here, hasn’t happened a lot, but I go, not okay. I dummy up. And um, I, I, I basically take an defensive, uh, assessing stands to kind of go, not, okay, throw them off guard and then observe, right? Get some distance and time. So, so is that a reasonable tactic when you’re dealing with bullies or somebody who’s forceful at work or in an negotiation? Can you kind of go? Not. Okay. Hey, I’m not so sure. What do you do in those situations?

Greg Williams: It depends. There’s never one size fits all because every situation in a bullying environment that you’re in will be different. Be it so slight than ones that you’ve been been been in a before. So if you’re in a situation where it’s face to face confrontational, you may not wish to back off to take time to reflect. Although had you been astute, you would have gathered information about that particular individual anyway. What type of demeanor does he possess? Why does he projects such as bullying attitude, and in what environments does he do? So what are the triggers that sets him off to make him want to bully others? What are, what is he sensitive and others that make him think he can get away with bullying. Those are aspects that you take into consideration. Okay, so now you’re face to face with the individual. Who else is in the environment? Is it just the two of you? Because that’s going to impact the way that you react also. What happens if you do back down, if you backed down from the bully at that particular point in time and no one else’s in the environment, but next time you are face to face with him and there are others in the environment, you’ve already told him by your prior actions, you can bully me again. So if were in that environment, nobody else was there. Do you confront him head on or whatever. Those are some of the thoughts that you have to engage in before assessing what action to take.

Cliff Jones: Great stuff. Greg Williams. Ladies and gentlemen, master negotiator, body language expert. Okay, Greg, third and final segment. We’re talking about body language, meaning of gestures you want to hit on the big one. Let’s hit A, hands.

Greg Williams: There’s so much information conveyed by hand gestures. Uh, stop, don’t add. Notice the complete gesture that’s associated with that one right there. I’m actually leaning back. I don’t want to be associated with that particular situation. The handshake, even when you’re initially meeting someone, you’re shaking hands with individuals and if the hands are like this, you’re shaking hands that saying, I’ve even to you your even to me, you recognize that I’m equal to you. Let’s say instead you’re shaking hands and your hand is on the top of the person’s hand is on the bottom. That person is literally saying you have a hands off over bait. So there’s so much information that’s conveyed just in hand gestures. And here’s something else to observe. You have to establish a foundation of how someone uses their hands before you can accurately assess a particular meeting when you’re negotiating with them. So if I do this in a normal environment and I do it several times, you can assume I really do mean, okay, stop or, or something of that nature. Then if I’m in an environment and we’re negotiating and I say, whoa, no, no, no, no, no, and I’m actually gesturing for you to come forward while I’m actually moving away. That’s opposite of what you’ve seen thus far. So you’ve seen a new gesture with those hands. So just note what those hand gestures mean is the point of that whole soliloquy.

Cliff Jones: Now you ninja warrior experts, you guys studied the eyes. Okay, so we got the hands right. So talk about, uh, what are you looking for in the eyes?

Greg Williams: Well, remember a moment ago when I spoke about the full situation and I said that you noticed that my eyes widened for that moment. The widening of the eyes really says I want to take it more of the environment. I want to recognize visually what is actually occurring in my environment. Plus that when people sense some type of excitement, the pupils will actually dilate. And that’s more insight that you can gather from someone about their level of excitement rising. Okay? What about, and again, remember, you have to establish the foundation first for how anyone uses their body language. But when someone’s trying to recall something in general that has occurred in the past, they’ll tend to look up and to the left, that’s where we associate past memories, occurrences and our brains and our minds, et, et cetera. They’ll tend to look up into the right when they’re trying to assess future activities that they might engage in. And thus, if I said to you and Cliff last night, you actually said that you were at such and such a place of so and so. Is that right? And I noticed that you looked up into the left. I’d go, okay. More than likely he’s being truthful. If you looked up into the right, either says he’s in creation mode as war. And by noting that gesture, I gather more input about how true for your response is.

Cliff Jones: In my limited studies, is it true that, uh, that, that is generally a so of people. But there are others who have a reverse brain and timeline. They’ll look right to go back and left to be more creative.

Greg Williams: You’re 1000 percent correct. Which is why I stayed it. You have to set the foundation first for how they utilize their body gestures because yes, there are some individual that will flip on you flip as far as that’s concerned, but they will establish a pattern and that pattern that you are observant of that will give you the insight that you actually need in order to assess to what degree they’re being truthful, and here’s something else also. Our body always wants to stay in a state of comfort and not until we have done something sense, something that takes us out of that state of comfort does do we actually perform a gesture to try and bring our body back into that state of comfort. So when you’re frightened, all of a sudden you’ll tend to make yourself smaller. You don’t think about what just happened. Your body is in a state of discomfort in that moment that you’re frightened and you go into a protection mode. So those are little things that you can actually observe,

Cliff Jones: Cliff, in order to detect and assess to what degree someone is thinking one way versus another. All right, before we move away from eyes to head, I want to do a little bunny trail. You take a vacation this summer? Ah, we’re even, I got the master.

Greg Williams: I recalled what I did.

Cliff Jones: Where was it? Where does the vacation?

Greg Williams: No, it was actually promoting my latest book heads stuff. Talk to us about stuff when we’re negotiating. Okay. What does this mean?

Cliff Jones: No.

Greg Williams: Okay. And what does this mean?

Cliff Jones: You know, it depends. I guess.

Greg Williams: Exactly, again, you have to establish a foundation because with most people that does me. No, but I’ve seen a lot of people go, oh my goodness, he was so fantastic and you go, wait a minute. He said he was so fantastic. I get the body language is not matching up, but that’s the way that person expresses. That’s the way that person affirms what he’s saying. In certain situations. I’ve seen people use this gesture to both affirm the positive and negative and you go, okay, but I keep saying you have to understand how a person is using their body language by establishing that foundation first. What are some of the other gestures? Uh, the cocking of the head, urine thought mode finger up to the temple is even more of a significance that I’m really in contemplation mode and if you offer someone talking about salespeople, you make a proposal and the person all of a sudden goes, okay, there in slight thought mode finger is indicated that they are actually going deeper even, and if they all of a sudden go, now you may have observed that I lean back a little bit. Either they are in the disapproval mode, because they’re literally moving away from what it was that you just offered. And or, they’re not comfortable being in this position either way. If you note that slight head gesture away, you shouLd address it by saying, what do you think about that Cliff and observe what the response is along with the body language. Well, what I think of it now they’re back close. they’re closer to you. Again, back to that original point.

Cliff Jones: Feet, legs, anything our audience needs to know about feet.

Greg Williams: Let’s just go right to the feet. You can avoid the feet by watching the feet. Okay? That’s it for my attempt at humor. Seriously though, by absorbing someone’s feet, you gather insight into what they’re thinking, especially when you’re face to face. Anytime the to the feet of individuals are aligned, that, uh, engaged in a conversation, they are mentally aligned with one another. If you see one foot from either person happened to point off into another direction, they are shifting their thought process, more than likely they’re going to disengage from the conversation and they’re going to move towards the direction that foot is pointing. As a salesperson, just as an example, if you are face to face with someone and you’ve made a proposal and a very particular moment in time, you see that foot happened to point in a different direction, that person is definitely, I don’t care what the person says, that person has started to disconnect with you from an a, from a conversational perspective, and they’re going to disengage with you very shortly. Completely. If you are in such a situation would behoove you to say something along the lines of, um, how do you feel about this? Try to realign your foot with the foot that’s pointed in the way and see what they do with their body language at that particular point in time and here’s something that sales people and everyone really should be much aware of, very much aware of, men do not necessarily bode well when someone is directly face to face with them. Okay, and thus, if you’re a male sales person talking to a male perspective, you might want to slightly stand to the side just a little bit. Women on the other hand, what people to be more face to face with them and that’s just a small nuance to be aware of when you’re in a sales position or any other position when you want to have influence.

Cliff Jones: True story about what happens when you miss those signals. I was a young man, 1994, building a new business, financial planning, dealing with other people’s money and missed all the signals in a face to face meeting, right? Husband and wife, husband wasn’t liking where the meeting was going. I was completely missing his body language, not listening to what and the meeting ended very poorly. So when we missed those signals, those cues, and we’re not aware, uh, all the things you’re talking about, whether it’s the psychology, or the specific strategies and tactics and then the minutia of the body language. We miss those things. It’s a big deal, isn’t it? If we don’t get, it’s a huge deal.

Greg Williams: It’s a huge deal because we’ve just not only impacted our current environment, but remember that what you do today sets up tomorrow’s negotiation that you may or may not be yet, and thus with that husband and wife, you had already shown that you are not attuned to him. And I’d be curious to know, did you actually close that deal later on or not?

Cliff Jones: No, I’m pretty sure they disliked me for the rest of their life. And you know why? Honestly, the truth was I was young. I was in a new business. I was afraid there was a lot of pressure to hit my business goals. It was all new to me and the truth was I was more interested in my fees then I was their needs. That’s just to be brutally honest with everybody. That was a long time ago, and that’s the difference between being an inexperienced salesperson for me and not knowing the difference between really helping people get what they want versus consciously or unconsciously serving my own needs. and, and when we’re negotiating, talk about the win-win aspects. You begin with mindset and and the understanding of sources of power, right? And, and our position with people. So. So talk a little bit about just in closing power mindset, you leave everybody with one main thing to take away today about being a better negotiator, understanding the dynamics of body language. What would that be?

Greg Williams: It would be, as you alluded to a moment ago, make sure the other person knows that you have his or her best interest at heart. That’s number one. Number two, observe the body language to gather who in a negotiation is in the power position with that husband and wife. Had you observed that the husband was not necessarily enamored with the presentation you were making or whatever he was sensing and you addressed it right? Then you would have had a better chance to close the sale. So always be very cognizant of what’s going on in your bar, per the non verbal signals via body language that you’re receiving and to try and adopt the right negotiation strategy for the situation that you’ll be negotiating in, And if you come across as too soft for the someone that’s very aggressive, that’s not the right match. If you come across as too aggressive for someone that’s too soft, again, that’s not the right match. You have to meet where you’re being met. And remember, you’re always negotiating.

Cliff Jones: Greg Williams and master negotiator, body language expert, master negotiator. TheMasterNegotiator.com is where you can find it. Now. Last question. Other than thank you for being here with us today. Again, if there’s one book our viewers and audience would want to buy of your seven met a huge body of work. So is there one book people want to get better negotiation regardless of their walker, like one book you to just start with.

Greg Williams: I would tell them to literally start with “Body Language Secrets to Win More Negotiations.” And the reason I say that is because this is book number six. There’s a lot of information in here about reading body language and the negotiation strategies that one should adopt based on the situation that that individual finds him or herself herself.

Cliff Jones: Got it. Well, Greg Williams, we’d come back and see us sometime soon.

Greg Williams: Cliff, I’ll always come back because I just love what it is that you do and I love what Harvey has done and continues to do to help everyone throughout the world.

Cliff Jones: Ladies and gentlemen, we’ve been with Greg Williams, the master negotiator and body language expert. Greg, thanks for being with us. Great to have you.

Greg Williams: Thank you for having to me Cliff.

About the Author Harvey Mackay, Founder & CEO

Seven-time, New York Times best-selling author of "Swim With The Sharks Without Being Eaten Alive," with two books among the top 15 inspirational business books of all time, according to the New York Times. He is one of America’s most popular and entertaining business speakers, and currently serves as Chairman at the MackayMitchell Envelope Company, one of the nation’s major envelope manufacturers, producing 25 million envelopes a day.

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